this isnt meant to "force" a project on anyone,..nor make/ put anyone uncomfortable.....   so anyways ill run it by yall.

THE IDEA:
    i have the money, and every other weekend off.  im wanting to build either a direct "AKER BARNES COCKPIT" or something thats a modded relation to it.

THE PROBLEM:

   i dont have a garage (apartment)...nor the tools (power tools..smaller stuff i got).

i dont really wanna ask someone to "borrow thier garage"... unless they are comfortable with it AND/OR making a pit themselves AND/OR want to do a project AND/OR are willing to accept some cash for thier time an effort, replenishable tool items...oh..and maybe beer :P.

im crappy at "project/metal/woodwork" common sence...and "man tools..that make BIG POWAHH!"..oooer but i wish i wasnt. if your a "measure twice, cut once" kinda guy, lemme know, if your interested. im sure a decent agreement for your time= my money could be worked out

personally, id rather build it myself.... but would love to have someone around who knows what theyre doing. if not that...at least find someone whose about to start the same thing, and maybe join creative ideas.

AGAIN,(but shorter)
i have the money for all the supplies,the space to put it...BUT not build it :(

or HOW can i do it myself...space wise, tool wise.. can i rent tools?, can i rent space?, can i use an outdoor "U STORE IT"?

if in houston area, or nearby, lemme know (even if its just ideas on where to look)

gau

(i realise there are MANY factors to discuss, but i just wanted to get the basic problem out the door, and see what we come up with)

GAU:  I have a garage and want one or more of these myself.  A construction king I am not....but I do have a friend with a CNC plasma cutter....Maybe we could chip in and get some thin sheet metal templates cut out??  Trace the templates onto ply, cutout and boom...cockpit!  Lemme know if you're interested.  I don't have a buncha tools but have been looking for an excuse to buy some.          PM me and I'll shoot ya my phone number...  I live in Northwest Houston... The Inwood Forest area...near 290 and Bingle/North Houston Roslyn...          I'll shoot my friend an email and just see what it would cost for the templates...  If not....We have plotters here at work...could print each piece and make our own templates.Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

thats good news !oh man..bingle and 290...spring branch....sigh, my old stompin ground :)im working nights..usually from 3:00 pm, till 1:30 ~2:00 am.  so if comms,or phone are going to be hard to use talk, guess we got E-mail.i AM  having the next 3 weekends off...this one comming up is my regular scheduled, and same as the last one, luckily im let go of work for the airshow weekend.where i work, i might be able to swing things with the machinist side too.. not sure though.....of course im thinkin if i/we could get something done, proly cost a fortune....then again..maybe not.ill get ya a PM in soon..

Cool....well...I'll talk to the guy who manages our CAD dept today to see if he can maybe plot me some full sized templates...  Not going anywhere this weekend...supposed to rain...  Maybe we can get something done this weekend....  At least get our templates made and if we get a break in the rain to get some plywood from Home Depot...  What type of vehicle you have?Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Hey guys... If ya'll want CAD drawings I'm an AutoCAD Guru.Just let me know what you wantS~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

Guse,              Sup man?  Check the link out and d/l the package...They were thoughtful enough to include the .dxf file http://www.62ndfightingfalcons.asn.au/62ndff/projects/cockpit/cockpit_instructions_metric_and_imperial_v1.6d.zipRegards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Cool stuff. Looks like a no brainer.The zip file contains the sheets in mm s I'm re-scaling the drawing for imperial (feet and inches). I'll upload the dxf and dwg files later tonight.S~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

As promised here they are.Now, the drawings look fine but some fine work needs to be made prior to creating a routing drawing if this is the plan of attack.  If someone will be routing this I'd advise that all notches which at the moment are 1/2" be increased to 9/16" as noted in the word document. This will give the assembler at least 1/32" room to ensure a snug fit. Of course if you intend never to dissasemble this puppy I'd go 10/16" (5/8") which would give you 1/16" around the notches (later glue) making the assembly a little easier. MDF or medium density board is actually quite good, we use it at the plant all the time as a surface and it's quite durable. Plywood on the other hand has a tendancy to split and it's heavy.Sometime this week I'll post full 3D drawings to ease assembly.In the meantime enjoy the drawings.Full instructions with added Imperial AutoCAD2000 DWG and DXF (http://"pop_download.asp?mode=Edit&dir=TX-Monguse&file=2073")Just the Imperial AutoCAD2000 DWG and DXF (http://"pop_download.asp?mode=Edit&dir=TX-Monguse&file=2074")S~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

Guse,             That just simply rocks  Thanks a ton man!  Do you mind if I share this with the authors?  (I'll give you full credit of course)Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"P.S.  I think the plans were designed to use 1/2 inch...or at least that's what the document states:Notes for Imperial Version onlyVERY IMPORTANT!To date, no cockpit has been made using the imperial version of the plans in this document.  Please take great care to double check the measurements of the line out points (Figure 3).  Please contact us if you do use the imperial version, and tell us of any incorrect measurements, or if everything is correct.The plans are designed for 1/2 inch thick ply.  If you use a different thickness of plywood you will need to adjust the widths and positions of all the slots and the height of the tabs accordingly.  To assist with this, use the red lines in figure 3.Unlike the metric version, the all the slots and cut-outs are drawn at exactly the same as the thickness of the timber sheets (1/2 inch).  They really should be about 9/16 inch.  As a result, it is important that you cut the slots and cut-outs just slightly on the outside of the lines as you mark them on the wood.  If you don’t the pieces will all be a very tight fit.It is useful to have the slots on parts (A) and (D) (only) to be a few millimetres closer to the centre of the cockpit (horizontally as they appear in figure 3).  This is so that they fit tightly and lock into place.  Note: The plans already have them shown as 1/4 inch closer than might be expected.  You do NOT need to adjust these measurements to make the fit tight.

good stuff :)vehicle wise, i have two passenger cars, but i got access to my moms truck if needed. HMMMMM..... to be  HARD assembled... or portable.  damn.since living in apartment, ill go with portable. im sure the whole thing built wont fit thru the door at any angle off attack :Pi have no probs with geting started this weekend.. even if its just.."damn..all we got done was scribbling on napkins for ideas..and that was 10 hours"

is MFD particle board?if so..sheets are really cheap, i think under 10.00 for each one (i had a pit before,out of MFD .....that got turned into bicycle ramps.but thats another story)if i remember... plywood can split eventually, but MFD was really prone to chipping/flaking on the edges, from where i had dinged it. unless there is a good way to seal/protect it. (quick break)..ah, it would be longer construction time also tighter tolerances, but what about fitting thin gauge galvanised material around key fitting element edges? or is that too much trouble?....i guess we'll see when we start thinktankin together. oh yeah i left ya a PM rahman

When I get to the office today I'll inquire about the cost of MDF.  I can tell you that particle board is much heavier than plywoood. If you don't think so, go to Lowes or Home Depot and try it out yourself. Gau, yes, MDF can flake if hit on an edge. I'll post more info later.S~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

i dont mind the heavyness of it..but ,i remember lugin those two sheets out by myself to the truck i borrowed..UFF.. ill make sure rahman is around for that.... :Pspeakin of "plants"... boy i hope you dont work where i work...ULP... or the B-17 story i told my boss to get off for the weekend is um... never mindhope your not my boss...now i dont wanna know where you work..  

There were several people who posted shots of their MDF "portable" cockpits...and expressed their displeasure with the chipping etc...  I will probably go with a higher grade ply even though it will cost a bit more...Portable or not...I'm shooting for portable also.  I want to be able to tear it down for LAN flights....if we ever organize some here in Houston.GAU....don't sweat it...  Guse is in FL Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Gau,Don't worry, I live in Coral Springs, Florida and work in Miami.S~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

Here is a Sneak PreviewS~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

Now that really rocks!Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Ok Gents here it is.The zip file includes a PSD and a PaintShopPro isometric images. You can turn off and on the layers as required. The images as shown below but larger.I also updated the plan to include an optional piece.Here are some small images:The Updated Zip File: (http://"pop_download.asp?mode=Edit&dir=TX-Monguse&file=2079")As an additional note. I was talking to Tdg-Thunderbolt as he has built an imperial dimension model and he said "... I highly recommend using the 1/2" "sandply" found at Home Depot or Lowes. It's furniture quality but perfectly smooth and flat which is important with some of the tongue-in-groove joints that are made"Let me know if I missed somethingEnjoyS~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

....depending on the width of the material that you guys are going to use for the cockpit....I have some very good PVC slotted tubing that we use for protecting buried drops that might be just what you need to keep the edges from chipping etc....let me know what the thickness of the MDF/Plywood that you are using is....and then how may hundred feet of this stuff ya'll will need!TX-CudaMinister of Information

Guse,            Very nice man....I didn't remember seeing a keyboard platform...but just read that you added it...  I think it will actually get in the way of my joystick which is too large to use on the right side....I'll have to fix something up to have it a center stick.            One other thing I noticed and I'm sure can be quickly corrected in the drawings is the pipe...  The pipe is actually supposed to go under the seat...not behind it.  The reason for the three holes is you can adjust the height and angle of the seat by using one of the three holes...            Great work though man.....wish you lived nearby so I could bounce other ideas off of you for this... Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Check out this mod:  If you're into jet sims...http://www.geocities.com/avmania555/merlincockpit.htmRegards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

oops, looks like I need to fix the pipe....Rah you have two keyboard boards part "P" or "Q". "P" is of a joystick and throttle while "Q" is for keyboard, mouse, beer holder and Cuda brisket eating table.Also there's an optional part "G", its supposed to be interchangeable with either "I" or "H".As far as bouncing ideas PM me and I'll call you on my cellS~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

Rah, That Cockpit belongs to Merlin, AKA:FZG_Immel, who flys with me and the VHVT. Pretty Cool, but for FB, and most sims, I would want a center mounted stick. . . as that is the more common configuration for piston aircraft until recently.  While I was at it I would love to add a stick extension so that the stick travel might be at least semi-realistic. . . instead of a platform you would simply have the stick below the seat or even on the floor (ideal) and some sort of mechanism to add force and stops to prevent damage. . .normally you should be able to move the stick about 15 inches from full left to full right aileron, and the same from full aft to full forward stick. There are some exceptions to this amount of travel, but not in the WWII vintage aircraft.I have a pic of just such a  setup somewhere. . . anyway, here is a neat peripheral that could have a more WWII looking face plate made for it, better yet, jsut buy some pots and make your own and save a few (thousand) bucks:http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?jbp5D01M=main/review/acp.htmhttp://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds/main/review/gftq6.htmhttp://www.goflightinc.com/S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

GUSE!thx for the CAD, man!.. i dont have any CAD, but g-max... i had thought about doing it in that, but im sure is way more time consuming.sorry i havent had a lot of input, but by the time i get home, and cleaned up its about 3-4 A.M. :(i concur with rahman, i think ply is the way to go, apon hearing the sanded ply, or whatever...if done right, use carpet in the right places,  i got a cockpit/ cat scratching post! enuff fun to keep me and the kitties entertained for years to come. ....................no really!( HA - HA  - HAAAA.. i DONT..... think..... so!)but, space is limited in my 1 and 1/2 (loft above kitchen) story apt....i have a loft bed in the bedroom. thinkin of movin that out to the living room above computer table stacey uses to play SIMS 2 on.... taking off the the matress, and putting the pit up on the loft bed platform (20 ft celings, plenty of space!).. ill be the only guy  that has to climb to "jet fighter" height to get in DA PIT :)

some notes.after looking at the link provided, i noticed the center console that drops betweenn the legs. having CH rudder pedals, it looks to me that you have to widen your legs, then bend them back in to have access to the pedals.. maybe the pic is deceiving, but i would proly find a way to slim that down some.becauase of my current set-up, i would feel akward with the stick between my knees. im proly going the "electric jet" route with the stick on right hand side.(not that it matters, just prefference.)i noticed that there is area behind the seat, maybe even under for SUBWOOFER?!, at least the back of seat offers plenty of room it looks :)for some reason i cant get any links to find with aker barnes cockpits..if i do, its all just forum stuff. no pics. so if you have a few more links bring em up :)

lastly, over at 310th forum, i had asked DIABLO, advise about building the ABC pit... here were some ideas he had/ or problems for us to think about.of course, most of it is just personal pref.quote"Gau..I'm trying to post over there now. In case i can't here are my ideas I would change.1. make it wider. I'm 5'6" 185 and it's a tight fit for me. I mean both my hips touch the sides. 2. The keyboard tray you might want to look at making not come out as far. I never use mine anyway. 3. make a bottom to place your rudder pedals on. Mine move away from me as I push on them. Hot glue down to a plywood bottom.4. If you want your stick between your legs devise a way to put a shelf to place your joystick on. I use a piece of threaded pipe attached to 2 base plates and screwed down onto teh bottom and and a plate for my joystick.5. Use a short section or rubber hose to pad teh handrest area with. The plywood is hard on teh hands getting in and out of teh pit. 6. Paint it soon. LOL not like me. Allow extra room for teh paint thickness in your slots. "

I totally agree with not using the "jet sim" kinda deal with the thing between your legs....would just get in the way.  I would also want to devise some type of platform or modification for the joystick to reside in the center.  As I mentioned before, mine is way too huge to put on the side shelf.  Will look at joystick mods/platforms once we have the pits built to see what makes sense.

---

Personal Prefs:  Hmm...well I'm like 5'8 200lbs so I'm sure my hips will touch also but can only imagine the headache in widening the design...  I would hate to spend cash on wood & all to have it not go together right.  How much wider would it have to be?I like the handrail suggestion...Maybe we could use round padding that's split for use on bicycle handlebars....that's soft and already has a split down the middle.For the Rudders.... I agree that the rudders would probably creep but don't want to sacrifice the porability of the pit...  We could always design 2 additional slots with another piece of ply that would basicly be a stop for the rudders.  Look at the illustrations above....  Put another part "C" under parts "F" and "E" to keep the pedals from creeping.  We'll look at this more from a positioning standpoint after the pit is built...  Maybe we could have several notches for multiple positions for various sized folks (I have short legs )  We can take measurements once we have it built to get optimum positions and enlist Monguse into making the mods on the drawings....Teamwork!From the drawings...I know the seatback is at an angle.  I would like to somehow have a way to mount my surround speakers on either side of the headrest...  I have an idea on how we can take care of this....will bounce it off you guys later...Ok...done with my rant for now...Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

I fixed the chair and rod and produced these Xray renderings. Hopefully this will aid in designing additions prior to fabricating (http://"pop_download.asp?mode=Edit&dir=TX-Monguse&file=2091") All images for Small and Large TableEnjoyS~TX-MonguseWhite 1War Room General

WOOT.. i found the secret to "online at work" pass-thru :)(but only can do at lunch)rahman, how do we look for this weekend? if its a "GO" do we need a truck?if thats the case, i have access to my moms, and ill pick up fridaynight/sat morning... other than rahman, and i sharin ideas during build up, are any of you available for "on call" status with assembly/refinement questions/ ideas? im sure we'll have em.the split foam bicycle idea is good, but maybe some of that PVC tubing CUDA has could come in handy :)ill be back around 2 am :(

We're still a go and as long as it's not raining we could go get some ply...  The guy at work hasn't plotted the drawings yet....still waiting.  Will remind him in the morning.  Sorry I haven't called yet...have been busy the past two nights here with typical stuff.  Do you work tomorrow night?  Just curious...if not I'll give ya a call. Just remember that I'm not a woodworking kinda guy....I'll be lucky if I have all my fingers when we're done...LOL  Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

i am working friday night :(  (BOOOOOOOOO!)but that just means im up REALLY early saturday (YEAAAAAAAAAA!)heard it might rain saturday...BOOOOOOOOOOOO!plans on keepin all twenty of our fingers... YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!my girlfriend said tonight in middle of cockpit conversation......"i wanna get MARRIED..BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!.BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!get to transfer sleeping from couch, to a new cockpit  when in trouble...YAAAAAAAAAY!ok ..serious side starts..........................................NOW.i should either get the dims on my monitor,.. or  possibly bring it? (21 inch)... my main concern is that its really big, and if the "table " doesnt have enough room, im not sure where track-IR will fit into place into the pit.     can you use a second  monitor?... i have  3 more that arent doin anything but taking up space. somwhere in 15~17" viewable range.... great for putting instruments on one while flying in the other.(FS2004) if needed ill lug the better of the 3.. none are great, but hey, secondary monitor for free.

forgot to add.. the reason with track-IR, and room is because i use a fresnel lens in front of the monitor. sticks out about  a foot and a half in front of it.

Ok...we're set on plans...  I have the plotted pit prints! (Say that fast three times...heh)  It took our CAD guy here all of 10 minutes to print them... Sweet!Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

I presume that you could mount the Track IR behind your head just as easily as in front of it and then just calibrate it accordingly. . . but then, I dont own it so i am just hypothesizing.S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

More:http://www.migman.com/hardware.htm#cockpitshttp://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/reviews/aimsworth/http://www.therealcockpit.com/http://www.projectmagenta.com/(I remember when these guys were just getting going, I used to test their stuff out whenever I could, and now they look like they've REALLY made a mark for themselves!)S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

GAU... Hey man I've PMed my number to you...gimme a call in the morning sometime...around 9ish I guess?  Goin to bed here....Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

im home early tonight (1:00) pfffft.my mom pickin up sheetrock with her truck around 8~9 in the morning saturday. after that , its ours for the taking. cant go too buck wild in it... just  a little nissan frontier (the small, early year one) and is all decored in  a "hers"  motif.. complete with enya, and gloria esteffan CDs :(, and i think a few small "dude ranch" cowgirl stuff.........this is MANS MAN stuff.....tuh.... no need for that here. (ill try to clean it out) dont want to be pegged for sissy boys drivin around the HOME DPOT lot..:::points to the bed, loaded with stuff... we're not sissy boys..were COCKPIT BUILDERS!

Report#1:Well....We haven't made one cut on the ply as of yet.  We went to Home Depot and both bought new snazzy toolsets...  Bought our 1/2 inch birch ply and other supplies.  Came back to the RahPad and started to setup for building the pit.  We decided that placing the plotted drawings over the piece of ply then cutting on the lines with a razor would score the wood enough for us to be able to cut out each piece with the lines from the scoring.  After getting around 5 pieces layed out and scored...I noticed that we had two "B" pieces...and they were different sizes!  So...at this point we measured and measured.....  To make a long story short...we stopped at this point.  Didn't wanna make cuts on the expensive ply just to make firewood.  So...we're still at square one....My wife's brother supposed to be good at measuring and all....gonna have him come over to look & see if he can whip out the drawings for us onto the wood.  I'll post pics from yesterday and will provide more updates as we work more on it... bloot.Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"P.S.  Was a pleasure to meet GAU....he's definately one of us!  He's already in the 310th....would definately welcome him into TX if that ever sours...

lolthank you RAH :)im glad both the firlfriend, and wife were happy that we meshed together faily well. although it was a different approach to meeting for the first time, i think it worked out real well.i just woke up :( and its close to 7 p.m. sunday.saturday, i only had 2 hours of sleep foing into the weekend. so when i left your house, being so excited, didnt realise how tired i was. when i got home, (around 1 ish??) i immediately hit the sack. woke up at 6 am. played a little OPERATION FLASHPOINT, at 9 a.m i was going to call, and see what the day would be like, then i thought....ill let RAH sleep some, and ill call around 12:00..so i took what was supposed to be a 2 hour nap...didnt happen..... im gettin up right now :(hope i didnt waste your day by your waiting to hear from me ..zzzzzzzzzz

apparently im still quite very much asleep. just look all those typose!

GAU,           Didn't do much with the plans at all today...except, hooked up with the brother in law and he will be making us templates from 18 gauge aluminum.  That way if we wanna make more pits for our brothers in the squadrons...it will be no problem!  I will let you know as soon as he brings them over...I'm hoping this week sometime...He said it will take him like 2 hours to do it on their machines at work. Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

did i leave those dremel tips/bits/safety glasses over there??? not in the truck, nor over here.. ulp.. fly out of bed?

GAU...Dang!  I'll have the wife check for you this morning soon as she calls me....  I'm pretty sure you probably left them if you don't have em....  I think you just carried away the Dremel case.... Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"UPDATE: I just checked with the Wife and your bag with the parts were in the garage...  She placed them in the house...

cool!not a problem at all that they are over there, was just very afraid that i put them in the bed at some point, and drove off.thx :)18 gauge... how thick is that? if its in ally, i hope he makes sure it correct in dimensionsbefore cuttin (snicker)

its 8 AMitsw beautiful, mornin boys, get up, rub that sleep out of your eyes!, come on come on, lets GO GO GO and make money for our  employer... go ahead.. ill be there in a sec :)::lags behind the line, then ducks behind some cover::::im going to bed

ill post in the other area as well,im going saturday to the airshow probably with my brother. see yall there, those who are attending on SAT.

heya RAH,whats the status look like for the weekend on building?because of airshow, im sure neither one of us will have too much time, also, any news on those templates yet?ill call ya morrow. see where we all goin to meet up at if any last minute changes. :)

GAU,          Still waiting on the templates...  Can't rush someone who is hooking us up I guess...             On another note: I've been talking with a guy who has a cnc router locally and am waiting on a cost to have the pits cutout by machine.  The guy mentioned like $35 per hour and not sure how long it will take to cut out each pit...  Will post more as I know more...  Still will go with the aluminum templates as soon as they're done....Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

whooo.. spacious new topic area! me likes!no rushing :)  ...definitely understandable, besides the weekend came an went so fast.. i proly wouldnt had been able to get there, even if everything was ok for launch.as per the router, im fine with that route. (prevents us from loosin fingers..)with the cost....can he figure out a realtive time/charge before hand?or is it... "35 bucks an hour, aaaaaan.... ill give ya a call when finished"....leading up to 4 hours lay-out, 2 hours loading tools, 6 hours cutting,..and 15 hours cleanup :P

Yup..was setup and all...  He quoted me $250 for the first pit and $150 for the second.  I thanked him and walked away quickly!  Also had another brainstorm yesterday...  Brother in law is making aluminum templates...  Hell, we can clamp the templates down and route around em.  So...as soon as he gets them created...we will give it a shot.  He hasn't done em yet from what I understand...but I'm not really buggin him...hate to bug someone who is doing a favor for me in a way I guess...  I'm anxious as heck though!Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Welp....  Started cutting out the first pit.  My brother in law came over Saturday afternoon and layed out one of the sheets for me...  I cut out the first sheet that night and yesterday afternoon.  Late yesterday afternoon he came and started laying out the second sheet.  He supposed to come back later today to finish laying out the second sheet of ply.  I will hopefully have it all cut out by Wednesday.So...we can lay yours out GAU....once I complete this one.  Was wondering if we should just trace the first one once we know it fits together correctly or have the bro in law lay it all out by hand again?  It's up to you....He said he wouldn't mind helping out again.  He still promises to create aluminum templates for me....just not sure when he will have the time at work.I'll post some pics later this evening on the progress...(We need a CNC router!!  hehe)P.S.  We got the wrong sized PVC....it was supposed to be 1 inch Outside Diameter...  We got 1 inch Inside diameter...  Need to get a 3/4 inch piece...I'll probably hit Home Depot later today to get another piece.Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Ok...pics as promised.  The rear section is complete as of tonight.  Only three pieces left to draw and cut out!  It's not perfect by any means but it's coming out good!The first few pics were GAU, Rah and our first stab at mapping the drawings out.  After discovering that some of the plotted drawings were not to scale we halted all work.  GAU looking at the semi-layed out piece of ply thinking "Man...what have we got ourselves into?"A closer look at the plotted drawings on the ply.Another look at the plots.  We taped them down and was scoring the ply with exacto knives.  Good idea but with bad plots...no success.A partially cutout and put together seat section.  This was taken on Monday Nov 15th.My nephew Tanner poses with the pit a little more completed.A little more together...lots of progress in the past three days.End of Monday evening...  Seating section completed minus sanding and painting / staining...  Shelves for the throttle and joystick installed.  I will have to come up with a way to center mount the stick.Final shot for the evening...Will hopefully finish up tomorrow night (Tuesday) and will post those pics...  It looks good so far...much better than I expected....My first ever woodworking project.  I'm enjoying it though!Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Looking goodTX-Monguse

WHO IS THAaaaaaaT????that is NOT ME....eeee!!?... it is?..oh..... i look rather GEN-X "shaggy" in that pic..wheres scooby doo? no rush RAH,... well, ok maybe a little ;P. i feal bad because i havent been in contact :(  work is litterally hurting me, had 84 hrs last week, no time to play.but this is my weekend off commin up :) and I NEED TO GET OUT!!!! nothing wild..just need OUT!  if this is something you plan on doing sat or sun, let me know. ill make the time.lookin good!  stacey cant wait to hear the news    "oh,..... "joy" : /...."

oh yeah the improttant stuff...  i need spel chek im way too tired .. its 4:25 am :(if you feel comfortable with tracing everything out, lets go with that. its not that i dont want extra hands helping, i just feel akward with other people putting time in for it... and im not there to help contribute physically:(but if its "safer" to use him again i have no problem. any ttoling..err .. tooling, parts, replaceables, that i can help cover cost of?on the comfort side..how is it?  on the seat, what  ideas you are thinkin about for the cushioning? ive had a few, but since im not there i dont know what is really workable.

Thanks Guse :)GAU:          Lemme check with the wifey to see what we have up this weekend.  I will probably have the wife's brother draw it out this week....and all we will have to do is cut it out.  He doesn't mind...he enjoys doing this kinda stuff...  You may want to swing by one evening or definately this weekend....  There were optional measurements to make the shelves a little bigger than normal and I went with the optional dimensions.  You may want the smaller shelves...  Can you swing by this week sometime?  I will have him hold off on drawing yours until you can look at how this one is coming out and the size.          Comfort...  Hmmm...Not sure how to answer this one yet.  I'm so used to sitting up at a desk that it feels almost like I'm sitting on the floor...Or in a race car of sorts..  At the angle in which my legs are...I will have to work out something to angle my rudder pedals...          Cushions:  I saw some orthopedic cushions at Fry's for $14.95 and bought one.  That's the black thing you see on the seat in one of the pictures.  It works well...I'll probably still put some foam under it.  Also will put cushion on the back....  The back of the seat can also be angled more by cutting down part G.  I left part G kinda large and figured I would cut it if needed.Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

....good pics Rahman and GAU...but here is the most important question....IS that Midget or a B-model that site there in the garage?! Just guessing I'd say it's a Midget. If it's a "B" model I have a good friend that stuffed a V-6 "aluminium" Buick engine as he calls it that was balanced and blueprinted and tricked out just a touch in one and it rocks!...sure beats trying to synchronize those three carbs that came on the original engine...TX-CudaMinister of Information

Cuda...,It's a Midget that needs some love currently...  And no...it doesn't have a balanced and blueprinted 6...heh UPDATE:Ok...here are the pics of tonight's work.... It's semi complete.  Still have some fine tuning to do on the table.  Sanding/staining etc..  There was one major goof that I was able to salvage...  My bro in law had a few too many tonight before/during the time he was drawing the final two pieces.  This caused him to draw one of them wrong which in turn caused me to cut one of the notches in the wrong place.  I was able to salvage it anyhow.  Check it:Shot from behind the pit.Another rear angle shot.Shot from the front left.  Notice the extra notch in the vertical leg of the table...not supposed to be there.And finally... TX-BabyNoodle in the pit.  He thinks it rocks! Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Cool!! Looks like you really cranked that one out pretty quick! Nice work, and how much would it cost to get one made and shipped to northern cali??  About the rudder pedals, you have the TM Elite style right? Well, in any case, from a realism and ergonomics perspective I would suggest not angling the pedals at the base, but instead fabricating triangular blocks that could sit in the cups of the pedals so that you could still push them along the same plane of rotation, and while having a more realistic set up as well. Normally the rudder pedals sit on about 75-80 degree angle near vertical.  Of course sometimes realism and ergonomics don't go hand in hand. . . this is my positioning when I fly the PT-17 Stearman. It is actually fairly comfy when the rudder is near neutral, but when I am using lots of rudder the pedal that gets closer really brings my knee up. . . this is pretty similar to the Decathlon as well. . . legs were shorter back when these things were designed. Kinda like this :Here is how it looks in the Stearman:The right rudder pedal.Here is the same as above but with my foot on the pedal.S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

great pics, especially of the new TX member :)my hours are from 3 pm till 1:30 am this week.  if i could manage to swing by....your proly not at home... or are you? (before 3 pm)the weekend is the best time for me to really get anything done.. unless your up really  late on friday nights to have guests?....... just what your neigbors want to hear at 3 am BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! as for size options, ill go with what you have, i shouldnt have a problem with anything. besides, i still need good surface area to keep other stuff nearby.brb...gotta go do sumpthin

what is the total width when assembled of yours?4 ft or under? if so, that will be perfect. since i am tight on square footage space, but VERY HIGH ceilings (20+ft).... i am going to be the first to "climb to the pit". i have a homebuilt loft bed w/ no matress that im not using, thats between 5 and 6 feet high,  im moving this out to the living room, above my VERY LARGE drafting table. (staceys computer area).. by putting the cockpit on the lofted surface, im saving a ton of space, and can now clear the smaller drafting table (currently what i use for simming)..and convert that to my plastic modelling desk.i have plans on converting the loft bed to have fully enclosed walls with dynamat or similar soundproofing, and have a "hatch" for access. my larger scale fresnel lens is on its way, not the same as a MAN-CAVE... maybe  ill call it "TESTOSTERO-BOX"

GAU,         Man...wish I had high ceilings!!  I would do something similar...  Look at the illustration below...  The H and I pieces are the widest of them all...  The standard size is 32 1/2 inches wide.  The optional size is 36 1/2 inches...this is the size I went with...  So less than 4 ft         I will be home this Friday but neighbors would definately oust me for cutting at 3am...hehe   Will check to see when the bro in law can draw it out...without any booze in the equation... Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

ECO,           Sorry man...I wasn't sidestepping your question...  Ummm...  Depends on the quality of wood you would want...and the cost of shipping.  We bought cabinet grade birch plywood.  Was around $28 per sheet...  Took the bro in law around 2-3 hours to draw it out....and took me probably upwards of 10-15 hours to cut the pieces out...maybe more.. (Cutting, filing the pieces with files/rasps to make the slots the right size etc...) I didn't keep track....could be more, could be less.  Could go with cheaper ply to bring the price down a little too...           The rudders....  Yeah I have the thrustmaster pedels.  I will work on finishing the pit so I can bring it upstairs and set it up just to see how the layout will feel.  The way your legs are when you're in the pit is more of almost a laying down position.  So...I will probably have to fabricate something like you mentioned.  I'm pretty decent with a jigsaw now so I could probably make something from the scrap 1/2 inch ply I have that would kinda resemble what that guy with the spaceship looking pit did:Something like this...Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"

Yeah! That's the ticket! Those actually looks sorta like the 109 pedals! Now you just need a toe strap to hold your feet on when maneuvering hard!For me at my size I would need some pretty goodwood. . . and shipping on what looks like about 60 lbs of material. . .so I guess the point your making is that it would be pretty pricey allright! How much knee room do you have when seated in there between your knees and the keyboard tray? I guess the nice thing about building one like that is that you always swap out a few pieces in sort of a fit kit to change the dimensions somewhat even at a later date. That seating position is not what you will find in many older designs, but most more modern aircraft built with G tolerance in mind will have that reclined seat, and low seat height from the floor, the F-16 and Extra 300 typify this the shorter the crano-atrial column is the less effect the G's have on the brain. In some instances, such as the Pitts aerobatic aircraft the seat is vertical, and you use a wedge shaped parachute to give some slope. I guess you could lengthen that piece at the back to give a more upright seat and increase the side height to give your legs a more vertical position. . . this design is cool in that I magine all these changes can be made using just one set of plans.  the ruddder pedals though are still pretty much the same basic design and positioning though. . .S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

HEY RAH..sorry i wasnt able to get in touch with ya this weekend.one of the guys got fired, so i had to be his replacement for the weekend. :(not what i had in mind. but hey. christmas money bonus is good i guess. :) im scheduled to work this weekend, but i am off thursday and friday, with NO PLANS. im sure youll be busy, but if ya got nothin goin on friday, let me know..ill be available

hey RAHMAN,sorry i havent been in contact, work is dumpin quite the load on us. a huge load. ive been switched to 12 hour status now, and alternating weekends are off until further notice. with my being on 1-1 shift ,i realistically wont be able to get out there to help, when your available,( or at an hour neighbors can tolorate power tool noise). since i cant  factor in time to help on it, ill gladly pay :) let me know whatcha think, i dont mind sacrafficing some money for it...whooooooooo im tired look at that pelling! spelling.err=P

GAU,          I apologize as well bro.  The bro-in-law hasn't stopped by again to get this done.  I'll call him again....see when he can come.  Sorry it's taken this long but I'm kinda dependant on him to draw it out.  I think I'm gonna get some thinner board and make templates this time...I now have a router and bought clamps and the bit to cut with.  Clamp down templete, route around it....  I'll buy 2 more sheets of ply also to test with and will donate and ship that pit to TX-EcoDragon... Regards,TX-Rahman"WHITE 6"