Gentlemen,

After some careful research, and some speculation, and a boat load of uncertainty.. Zen and I have embarked upon a task.

Most cougar users embrace a harsh reality.   The design and software that is part of the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar is sound, and effective.  However, due to today's global markets and extensive outsourcing, parts of its construction simply suck.

We have decided to take up the task of finding a cheap and suitable repair solution to get our cats back in action.   First, all pots will be replaced with Hall Effect Sensors.  Second, we are going to come up with a modification similar to the Evenstrain mod everyone raves about, but no-one can afford.

What I need from TX is a list of people who own the Cougar, and who are also interested in the repairs/mods/upgrades.   I have a good idea who owns one, but I want to post to make sure.

Please refrain from any non-essential posts in this thread.   I'm viewing this as a serious issue and really don't want to see any hardware bashing going on here.   I will remove any post not topic related.

Thank you!

TX-Deck out.

As stated, I'm game for this. I find that my Cougar is limping along with bad pots and I've finally decided that the spring tension is too high for accurate gunnery. I hope to get a stick with light but controllable tension out of this project and with the hall sensors, spiking pots will be a thing of the past. I'm trying to find more details on the hall sensors so that we can get them cheaper than Cub Pilot does them for which is about 60 dollars per sensor. Cougar owners, please post your thoughts on this. We plan on picking up the parts for all us in one fell swoop, I'd like to confirm interest before we commit. TX-ZenBlack 6TX Squadron CO

Sounds like a most wonderful idea.However, I am afraid that in my current state, I can't commit to anything.:(I'm working really hard to get caught back up, and put my head back above the water.TX-CageBlack 5... end ...

Have no fear Cage, we'll make this happen.I want to get a list of names, and I'm pretty sure there are only 4 of us who own them, and then go from there.   If this can't be done for less than $75 then I'm out as well.I'm estimating approx. $10 for parts each, then the cost of the hall sensors.  At this time the best estimate we have on those is around $60 each, but I personally don't believe it and am going to try and locate a much better deal.  Buying in bulk will help out too, I figure if there are 4 of us, then that is a total of 12 sensors and we might get a price break.Don't worry about commiting funds at this point, Zen or I'll cover the parts on the first one as a guinea pig and then we can go from there.TX-Deck out.

Manford,                A pot costs $60?  What are the specs on it?B~TX-Rahman"BLUE 2"

Cage,Don't worry about the cost, I'll cover you and we can settle up later. Its wingman concept.TX-ZenBlack 6TX Squadron CO

I was going to say that I myself am willing to contibute to the ascenscion of ALL TX members , i.e. meaning we should start some form of a pay-pal for the squad to use in just such a case. I know you dont and arent asking for hand outs any of you (prideful myself) but I'm more than sure and confident that several pilots in the squad would be more than willing to donate a few bucks, 5 here 10 there . And if thats still a touchy subject we could donate anonymously if it made anyone feel better or what not. anyways, I'm just offering my help and suggesting another option. Thanks for not removing this one post, :)S~Tornado

I started to look into getting my own Hall Sensors but quickly became confused with the deferent types and specifications. If you guys can pull this off that would be great, nothing more frustrating than not being able to fly because you have a sick kitty.TX-ChukarBlue 1

You guys are too much.I will do my best to contribute what is needed and what I can.  Thanks alot guys.TX-CageBlack 5... end ...

Not sure if this will be helpful, but Thrustmaster sent me replacement pots and I have my defective pot collecting dust. I can take it to an electronics store and have them check the pinouts. I think this is a great idea, and the hard part imo is finding the right pot pinouts, and then the right shape etc. I found a site that has more pots than I would ever want to see, and I think it's the same place Cub order his pots.Regarding the tension, I like the high spring action. However, I am sure there is wear and tear involved, as there is with the x-y axis system (forgot the 'name' they use to refer to it). Might be a good idea to look into a way to protect the areas of that which rub and cause degredation.Anyway, I am interested in helping if you accept non-tx'ers into the effort :)Cheers,GR142-Sammie

Sammie,I'm amazed Thrustmaster sent you anything.  That is remarkable.  Everytime I talked with them they asked for me to ship the unit back for replacement.  Maybe enough time has passed that I should try again.The pots on my joystick are in good shape, but I am having issues with the throttle.   I figured if I am going to replace one, I might as well replace all 3 while I'm at it.  I know a couple other Cougar owners in the squad are having issues with the joystick pots.It appears the Hall Sensors are very pricey for what they actually are, but when you figure in the MTBF for those units, 10,000,000 cycles looks pretty attractive.   The best I have found in a standard pot is half that, at 5,000,000 cycles.   Regardless of the increased hardware reliability, right now I am leaning towards some less expensive high quality standard replacement pots.Oh, from what I can tell, the pot in the throttle seems to be a standard 100k pot, but somewhat special in the sense that the housing is square and fits directly into the die cast mount molded into the base of the throttle.  Switching to a circular housing on the pot would mean mods to the base, do-able but definitely a hassle.  I haven't checked the rating on the stick pots, time to get out the multimeter and check them out.I'm casually exploring all options, and I'll keep y'all updated as news comes along.  If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.TX-Deck out.

Here's a link to the Hall Sensors that I have found so far....https://www.electronic-parts.com/store/finditem.cfm?itemid=693982&orderid=ID9431436196836799And here's a link to the pots I think might work as a less expensive option....http://www.potentiometer.com/578.pdfThose run $8.50 each for a quantity of 12-24.TX-Deck out.

Just FYI, the mod that Manford is considering making looks approximately like this:As you can see, it replaces the stock 2 pair cougar springs with 4 springs at the corners. According to what I have read about this type of mod it eliminates center play and reduces the stick load by 1/3 to 1/2 depending on what kind of springs you use. Perhaps once complete, hopefully all of our right arms will decrease in size back to regular proportions. For those of you with boths arms abnormally large, hopefully you will be able to drop your other habit. No pun intended. TX-ZenBlack 6TX Squadron CO

Did the pay pal suggestionget overlooked ? Just curious as to where to send my said funds.TX-Tornado

This is extremely prelim Tornado.  Thanks for the offer but just hold tight for now!S~TX-Deck out.

Pretty cool stuff Deck, I hadn’t seen that spring mod before.  And boy that Hal Sensor sure is shinny.TX-ChukarBlue 1

Trying to avoid this in this thread, but I have to mention just this one tidbit.Last time I priced the CH equipment, only place in town to carry it was Fry's.   USB pedals, USB throttle, and USB flightstick would run a character $375 total.   Each component was $125.    The cougar really isn't THAT bad of a deal if you think about it.  We just have to get past these certain el cheapo components included in the initial product.  I suspect once I get these pots replaced, future problems will be few and far between.TX-Deck out.

I have located the manf. specs on the pots that are shipped in the stock Cougar.   Here's a link, and I'll post pricing info when I find it.   I'm using this information as a baseline for comparison.By the way, after some quick testing this morning, it appears the pots in the joystick are 50K.   Still not sure about the throttle, I will have to tear it apart again and take another measurement.  I'm pretty sure they are the same.http://www.ctscorp.com/electro/251pot.htmS~TX-Deck out.10/28/2003 Edit:  The stock pots are definitely 100K

Hi, I am willing to help out with machining parts and all if you guys are interested. I am also looking for a way to fix my cougar bad pots, center freeplay, and stiff spring. And no, I can't quit my other habbit! :)I'm not a machinist but my friend owns a machineshop here in Bangkok, Thailand. If any of you are an engineer or can come up with a design I will be more than happy to submit it to my friend and see if he would do a prototype for us. I will pay for it out of my own pocket, so don't worry about me turning out to be a third world's con man or anything like that. I'm just a flight simmer that want my 300 dollar cougar fixed.Here in Bangkok parts and labor will be pretty cheap - so I don't think my friend will charge me $400 for a mod like this guy does at frugalsworld.If you all are interested then let me know. cheers{EDIT}Also, I have been thinking about replacing this F16 style grip on my Cougar with something a little more exotic - like the one on a Russian Su-27 Flanker. If anyone could come up with a cad drawing of the above grip (or anything that we could all live with) then I know a place where they can do injection molding (using hight impact plastic) for a decent price. Again, I'll finance this myself if it's not too much. Of course the design would have to allow us to transfer all the switches to the new one.Yes, I hate the default F16 style grip that much!

Leafer,Thanks for the post...this is some good info. I think TX ought to look into this a little more, I'd be willing to contribute to the project. Hell, for a different set of gimbals and a flanker stick, I might even come out of retirement. S~TX-ZenBlack 6 Reserve

W00T!!  That would rock Zen!  Miss ya in the air and on comms.... How are you my old buddy Ismael? B~TX-Rahman"BLUE 2"

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH. . . very cool offer! Hmm. . . lets wrangle Zen back. . . I think between the return of  the OC3, the addition of the Ta-152, and a refurbed and better than ever cougar the guy will have no choice but to relinquish control to the game gods  ;-)S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX Squadron XO

Ismael Petrozzi is rocking right along, hitting the Gym twice a day, dropping tonnage, fulfilling his self improvement plan and trying to stay out of trouble. I turned off my net connection at the house since I didn't need it any longer, if I decide to get some stick time in, I'll have to really consider turning it back on. Once free of the gaming gods, its hard to walk back into that temple of doom...I've done more in the last two months than I have in the last year and half, no doubt about that. Meanwhile, about to start my Kendo training, maybe throw in some Jujitsu too. Have a hankering to take Zen Buddhism to a deeper level, considering some major lifestyle changes to accomodate. A little while ago I almost bought a katana to practice with, the urge to swordfight has jumped up on me again, something fierce this time. Guess its time to stop reading the book of five rings and watching matrix reloaded lol. Otherwise things are going pretty well, got no major complaints. Kinda miss flying, definately miss TX online. Hugs all around!TX-ZenBlack 6 Reserve

Hello, all.Ok, that's the answer I was hoping for. Been wanting to fix my cougar since I first bought it. Ok, so do we have an engineer around here? I installed a CAD program on my comp so I could tinker with the Cougar and designing new gimble, but I have no idea how to use it. BUT, I would be more than happy to help with the designing process; I'd even take the time to learn CAD if someone would point me to a 'free' source to learn the program. I am currently learning Maya 4.5 and I'll alternate between the two programs.Moving on...Ok, so what do we hate about our Cougars? 1. The center freeplay - it's so bad on mine I feel like I'm playing with a 20 dollar joystick.2. The cheap and unreliable potentionmeters; aka POT. 3. The ridiculously stiff spring. Don't they know us geeks have small biceps?Do we agree that the above three are our main concerns?Then we need to come up with an innovative and cost effective design to get rid of them. I have a suggestion on number three. Instead of replacing the original spring, why not make the stick longer like those in the real jets? We play sim often enough to warren mounting it permanently on some kind of board and put it under our chairs, so the result is something like this:I believe the above setup also gives us the immersion of sitting in a cockpit, too. Of course, if we put the stick between our legs, the grip will have to be angeled about 45 degrees to the left to accommodate the natural shape of our hands. Try pretending to grab a flight stick that comes up between your legs to see what I mean.With a setup like that, i think the gimble will have to be machined from a stronger aluminum/steel, but what type I don't know. Any suggestion would be nice because I could take that information and shop around for the best price on the material. The actual machining will be cheap! How cheap? I don't know, but I'm thinking 20-30 u.s. dollars - probably 20 dollars. The bad news is that my friend doesn't have computer control machine, so the whole process will be done by hands. But don't worry, he's very skilled!As for the replacement grip, let's focus on that after we're all done with the fixes. But yes, I definitely want to replace the default stick - I am not too crazy about it being metal either. The novelty of having an all metal HOTAS are gone after the second day I got my Cougar. In fact, I think the real sticks are made of plastic.I will draw a preliminary sketch and post it here shortly. I have a hare time communicating my vision with words so I think a drawing would be better.For now I hope you guys can understand what I am talking about.Cheers

edit-had a flash back and got off topic there for a second. ;)So, no one is interested?

WOW , He liiiiivvvveeesssss , lol, great to see ya jakus. And glad to hear your on track and moving along. I PM'ed you . S~TX-Tornado Blue 3TX Squadron TOp.s. Whens the release of the best seller ?!?!?!

Leafer,    This is an older thread, and just by coincidence most of the TX members who used the cougar are on reserve at the moment fulfilling other real world goals/duties etc. So I wouldnt say they are not interested necesarilly, but rather that the timing is a little off, and they might need some coaxing back into it  ;-)Despite this I know there is talk of doing this work, so lets see what happens!S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX Squadron XO

Oh. ok. I knew that this thread was old but assumed the project was still on. Bah... I got all excited for nothing. heheAnyway, I talked to my friend and showed him the inside of the Cougar; he smiled and said "that's it?" Meaning it'd be too damn easy to machine the parts. I'll have him do mine as soon as he has some free time - currently he's trying to complete a large order of some automotive airconditioning parts, so he has no time to fiddle with my "toy." :pWhen I have time I will look into the cost of molding a replica of the Su-27 stick. My friend thinks it will be around 250-300 dollars to make a mold using CNC machining process. Anyway, they are long-term projects and I will come back here when there are news.cheers

TX & Friends,I have also had problems with my Cougar, I purchased it 5 months ago and a month after the purchase, my Y-axis pot went "jumpy" so I took it apart & cleaned it. My X/Y axis gimbals are also so loose that I have 1 inch of center play on the X-axis, and 3/4 inch play on the Y-axis (measured from the top of the stick). I was planning on emailing Guillimote (sp) for replacement parts, but never got around to it since so many people have not been able to contact them lately.I also broke my SPEED BRAKE switch on the throttle, I have not been using it. I need a new mount for the switch, and maybe even a new 3-way switch.I have a CNC machine and I was thinking of making new gimbals, with plastic tabs lining the areas of influence on the X/Y axis to reduce wear and center play. Also lining the shaft of the stick with thin plastic (1/32). Of course, lubricant applied to all of these areas.Since these sticks all have a 3 year warantee, I will attempt to get replacement pots/gimbals/3-way switches/microsticks/trim dials.For a 200$ joystick (wholesale) it sure is a piece of $hit.I eat, sleep, and deam of killing yaks.Then again, when do I sleep, I'm always killing them!

I am currently waiting a callback for a quote on a lot of 60 replacement pots from CTS.   These are an exact replacement, brand name and all, for the pots that currently ship standard in the Cougar.   More info to come.Why 60?   If I am going to order 1, I might as well order 3.   Again I might as well do this 5 times.   There are at least 4 of us in the squad who use the Cougar, so I might as well order enough for everyone.    Total of 60 pots.I'll post the pricing information as soon as the dude calls me back.TX-Deck out.

I'm also going by the hardware store tonight to see about springs etc for this mod: (which looks to be actually remotely possible with my limited mechanical skills)TX-ZenBlack 6

Zen, isn't that do-hicky thing in the center of the gimble something that would have to be machined?Thanks Deck, I definitely will need a few.TX-ChukarBlue 1

I finally located a distributor for the stock CTS potentiometers.CTS Series 251#251B15F254B6N13-4 week lead timeLot of 60 resulted in individual pricing of $5.35 each.    The entire batch would run us $321.   Little pricey for my wallet, I need to know who needs these, and how many.   I will see if they can produce a smaller quantity, and what the price difference will be.   I suspect that in smaller numbers, the price per part will go up by a small percentage.Please respond ASAP if interested, and how many you would like.  Personally I'm going to get at least 6 of them.Thanks,TX-Deck out.

6 sounds about right for me too.TX-ChukarBlue 1

*bump*TX-Deck out.

Pencil me in for 6 manfordTX-ZenBlack 6

Ok folks, here is the latest on this situation.    Different from what was originally planned, but I'm really liking the results so far.For several reasons, I ditched the idea of ordering replacement stock CTS pots.    $6 a piece, and only in quantities above 50, with 4-6 week lead time.  All that to replace a part that is known to prematurely fail within a certain amount of time.  For me this was undesirable.Here is what I came up with instead.   A little bit of inspiration from one of the latest HALL sensor mods out on Cougarworld.com, a couple hours running errands and procuring parts, and another couple hours of labor and WE ARE BACK IN BIZNESS FOLKS!Supplies:1  - 100K Potentiometer (brand name unknown) $1.492  - Ball-link connectors (Dubro)  $3.001" - threaded 4-40 rod (Dubro)  $0.101  - 90 degree flange of metal (scrap) $0.002  - 3 pin Molex plastic wire connectors  $1.50Pictures:  (large to show detail)Stock setup with defective potentiometer, wires cut...New el cheapo potentiometer in place, wiring installed and metal bracket epoxied on to top of housing...Throttle assembly back in place, ball links installed and everything nice and neat...Top view of above...So basically all this was done for around $7.00.Please let me know if anyone else is interested.    I'll do the labor with no charge for TX members, pay for parts and shipping only.   Everyone else I'm going to charge out the wazoo.  The coolest thing about this...  when it comes time to upgrade to HALL sensors, all that has to be done is to swap them out for the existing potentiometer.   Even if the existing replacement fails within a few days, months, or later down the road... $1.50 and a repair can be made very easily.I flew with the repair tonight, and noticed NO adverse performance, although it did take a little while and some tweaking to get my system to recognize the full range of the new pot.   When I first plugged it in, I could only get a throttle range of 38% to 60%, and I was really worried it wasn't going to work.   Some fiddling here, some adjusting there, and I was able to get the full range working.   I'm pretty fired up right now, simple long-term fix for the major downfall of the Cougar HOTAS.TX-Deck out.

Guys I have been watching this post since it was new.....almost anyway...I do alot of so called soldering and if I can price something out for you out here let me know and I will be glad to help. Also my best friend in the world is a machinist....so gimbless ....blah lol...no prob..... solid aluminum......you need something let me know and I will see if I can help.    maybe....Also Deck doesn't this mean it is no longer digital since a potentometer is analog???? Not quite as fine which actually Sturmovik won't care...S~TX-FlightRisk Black 3

Actually it should still be digital even though it's a analog pot...  It's basicly what's in there already.  Just differences in resistance.....same with our digital recording console... Analog volume sliders (Well...motorized...move themselves but you know what I mean....)Manford:  You're a friggin jack of all trades... Engineering Foo!  When are you going to build be a cockpit?????bloot..Regards,TX-Rahman"BLUE 2"

Flightrisk, Rahman is correct, the stock pots are analog as well.   The HOTAS might convert the signal to a digital one, but starting with the pots the signals are still analog.I've actually had an optical joystick years ago, instead of analog pots, they were substituted with optical sensors, exactly what you would find for the X and Y axis in any standard wheel mouse.  Dust, grime, etc. was never a factor.   I must say, it was the smoothest on-screen action I've ever seen from a joystick.   The only problem, the joystick was literally $10 from Walmart, and basically decomposed under routine use.Rahman, still waiting on the plans for that cockpit, manford!TX-Deck out.

You serious??  If so... Rgr that!!  I had a place with some plans....will have to look the site up again.  My brother and father inlaws work with thick and thin sheet metal...could just give them dimension of the sheets  I need and they have all the bending / cutting machines to do it on...  Could lay thin plywood and then thin metal to form the outer skin....rivet city! Regards,TX-Rahman"BLUE 2"

Geez man...We need to make sure we have some sort of checks and balances setup, or we might end up with a complete airframe!TX-Deck out.

It's ALive. . .ALIVE!!!!S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX Squadron XO