My proposed new system

[TX-EcoDragon]

Steve, the sad fact is that not only do the 8800 series video cards need a strong CPU to keep up with them, but FSX is absurdly CPU dependant, and in your case it seems that you are bottlenecked by the rest of your machine.You should be able to crank up settings like anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, as well as resolution compared to before with the same fps you used to get, but you won't get much higher fps overall as you are still limited by the CPU.In my case, overclocking my video card does indeed lead to a fps increase, but much less than in other titles that don't have as much dependancy on the CPU. Overclocking the CPU on the other hand leads to a very obvious boost in FSX fps.S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

Thanks Eco for the explaination.  You mean there are faster cpus than mine? Since posting, I have figured out that I can max out settings, with no futher ill affect on frame rates, so I was wondering if maybe perhaps my cpu wasn't the bottleneck after all.I don't suppose than that DirextX10 will alleviate my problem at all...  Speaking of which... when is that supposed to be released?Oh, one thing that does seem to have improved though (and I know you'll think I'm crazier than usual); but the sound effects on FSX sound better after putting in the 8800 card... go figure.TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4

[TX-EcoDragon]

No Steve, you ARE limited by that CPU, that's for certain, since we are ALL limited by our CPUs in FSX even with the fastest CPU out there now overclocked within an inch of it's life. The only way to be GPU limited with an 8800 in any game is to run resolutions around the 2000's and 16xaa and 16xAF. FSX is MORE cpu dependant than any of those titles, so again, the things that the GPU does will be improved, but overall the CPU will still determine most of the performance for FSX. Though while many IQ settings can be bumped way up without a decrease in fps, you won't see any big fps boost without something more in the cpu department.S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

I wrote my previous response poorly... I was agreeing with your assessment, but now realize that my poor grammar stated otherwise!Anyway, I suppose I can't expect to increase autogen density (or basically the number of rendered objects--as the CPU also handles that) but can increase the quality of the rendered objects (as that's entirely in the GPU domain) without much change in performance.TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4

[TX-EcoDragon]

That's right Steve. . . It will be somewhat tedious, but you can raise each quality setting a bit and see when your fps starts downwards. I for one don't really like any more than 2-4x anti-aliasing in the MS sims because the panels start to lok a little lower quality as they lose their crispness, so instead I raise the resolution one notch. I find that 1280x res is nearly as good as the higher resolutions so if you can run that you're fine there. If you can run that with 2X aa then I'd just start bumping up the anisotropic filtering and leave the aa lower initially. Of course you should have done the tweaks we've listed in the other posts too. My testing has found that all AI traffic results in a big fps hit and you usually don't see the traffic anyway other than on the ground at airports and sometimes in the pattern. . .interestingly the traffic that has the lowest performance hit is also the one that adds the greatest realism in my oppinion . . . the cars (not the airport vehicles-ouch on the fps there). As you know you can fly around and not see an airplane, but flying around and not seeing swarms of cars is pretty much unheard around these parts.In addition to Autogen also use caution with the water settings as going to 2x water sucks fps, and there is a much larger hit going from 2x low to 2x mid.Keep global textrure res high, and you can probably also keep scenery complexity pretty high as well (just not the autogen).Have fun tweaking!S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

I haven't done any real tweaking yet, but have bumped up my resolution, aa, anistropic, etc... and wow... the sim looks so much more beautiful with NO performance hit!  One thing I noticed though is I tried flying one mission, "Dutch Harbor Approach"... but after about a minute, the screen went black... and the sound began looping.  Couldn't do anything but reboot the computer. Figured it was just an odd crash.  Ended up picking up some really nice LG 19" monitors (2ms response, 3000:1 contrast, really narrow frames),  yesterday, and was excited to try them out with the TrippleHead2Go (which I decided to hang on to)... and wow!!!  Running at 3084x1024 is a trip on 3, 19" flat screens.  It's amazing how much having graphics in your  peripheral vision seems to add to the realism... plus you can see so much more in widescreen view on FSX!!!  It's actually quite breath taking... and am now glad I hung on to my TripleHead2Go.However, usually after a few minutes of flying, my screens go blank... computer eventually crashes.  Sometimes I'm able to hit ctrl-c and "y" to exit out, and I go back to the desktop just fine, other times, there's no response just the sound loop.  Some missions, like "Amazon Trek" will crash my computer as soon as it finishes loading.BattleField 2 looks outstanding... but only got 2 minutes into playing that (offline) before my screen went blank, and computer crashed with a sound loop.The only thing I've found online so far was a statement someone had said that there was a problem with Nvidia's drivers and FSX with Vista, and was going to try an older Nvidia driver.  I don't have Vista... but may try getting an older driver.In any case, though, I wondered if anyone here had any ideas?  Could my video card be over-heating?  I haven't touched it's settings since installing it--simply downloaded the latest drivers from evga.com; however, it is cramped in the tiny micro atx box.  I've left the side panel off, and have touched it while running, and it doesn't seem very warm at all--very scientific I know.I did get a 600W power supply (had a 250W stock before) with a 35A rating for 12V specifically for the 8800GTS; but maybe that's not enough power for it and the rest of my hardware?S!TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4

[TX-Rahman]

Eco,         I think with my board that I can unlock the proc clock from the ram clock somehow.  I can still run the CPU at default and then clock my ram up to 1066Mhz.  At least this is what the forums and documentation had led me to believe.  I still haven't tried overclocking my system at all... I may try that soon....  It's been so long since I've overclocked...  Maybe I should talk to you on comms first since you've been knee deep in it; just to make sure that I don't fry anything... Regards,TX-Rahman"BLACK 4"

[TX-EcoDragon]

Tell me when and i'll tell you what I can, not much but hey!S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

I finally got my system up and running.  At the suggestion of a couple friends, I figured I may as well build a new computer to go with the 8800GTS, which might help resolve my crashing issues.So, to help keep up with you folks... this is what I got:CPU: Core 2 Duo E6600 ($322)Memory: 2GB OCZ DDR2 PC8500 (SLI EPP certified:OCZ2N1066SR2GK) ($289.99)Hard Drives: 300GB Maxtor (s-ata) ($74.99) [plus two old IDE ones from old computer]Sound Card: X-Fi Platinum (previously purchased)Power Supply: ThermalTake Toughpower 700W ($119.99)Case: Raidmax Smilodon Mid-Tower ($119.99)CPU cooling: Zalman CNPS9700 LED ($69.99)Mobo: EVGA nForce 680i SLI 775 ($267.00-$50.00 rebate)Video Card: eVGA 8800GTS 640meg (superclocked) ($409.99-$30 rebate) (previously purchased)(currently 8800GTX) ($569.99-$30.00 rebate)I realized my CPU cooling fan was too big if I wanted to be able to open the back side of the case on it's hinges, so replaced it with a smaller version (Zalman CNPS9500LED $59.99)--which I realized later was silly, since all the front panel connectors, ribbon cables, etc. make that task pretty much impossible without disconnecting everything anyway.Anyway, I had previously run 3DMark05 on my old system, and my computer would always crash in the same place.  With my new system, 3DMark05 would crash at the exact same place as well.  After talking with EVGA tech support, they agreed that I must have a bad card.The last 2-3 weeks have been rather sleepless for me as I tried to sleuth out all my problems.  I made arrangements with newegg.com to send back the card, and buy another one.  So I decided to go ahead and get the GTX model (not over-clocked) for $110 more.  I just got that today.In the mean time though, I realized that if I set the GPU and memory speeds of the GTS down to the basic model's values, my system ran fine... but after all I had paid extra money for an over-clocked GPU, so I was still planning to send it back, as it was still obvious I wasn't getting my money's worth.I was also trying to figure out why I couldn't get 1066Mhz on my RAM.  I flashed two different bios versions; yet every time I tried bumping my speed from the default 800Mhz to 1066Mhz, my system would spontaneously reboot upon booting.I really know very little about memory and realized I had really gotten way over my head.  I did notice a comment in a forum about setting the timings to manufactures specs; so I went to OCZ's website and found the specs for the memory.  I set the timings at 5-5-5-15 (something I had previously been completely clueless about); but noticed that the default settings were already set to those values--I put them in manually anyway... Still no go... Then I noticed the volts in the memory specs, and remembered I had seen volt settings in the bios before.  Sure enough the voltage was at "auto" and set a lot lower than the memory specs.  Not sure if it meant anything, or what exactly "volts" in the specs really meant (max volts?); I set the bios to the value given on the website...  The system runs great now!  I ran a couple differrent memory checks just to be sure.The below scores are stock settings--with the RAM set at 1066Mhz, and the GTS under-clocked to "normal" speeds.My 3DMark05 score with the GTS was 13932http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8765661With the GTX (stock), it is 14818http://service.futuremark.com/orb/resultanalyzer.jsp?projectType=12&XLID=0&UID=8766887TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4

[TX-Rahman]

Wow Steve...you and I have an almost identical setup.  I still haven't forced my ram to 1066...  I think it's running at 875 or something...I'll have to look and see in the bios and make thr same changes you did.. :)Regards,TX-Rahman"BLACK 4"

[TX-EcoDragon]

Lots of info here guys:http://www.overclock.net/Generally though, you don't want anything set to auto if you can avoid it, though you also must know the suggested values or you can damage things. When it comes to mem timings you should keep them loose until you have a stable OC then tighten them if you can. 5-5-5-15 is plenty loose and should let you have nice stable 1000MHz clocks.S!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

Yeah, I figured after all the research Eco had done, I'd get something similar to him, that I could find at Fry's... which resulted in something more like what you got Rah.  Except it looks like I generally spent more money on the same items.I wonder if I should have gotten the 750W power supply, but the next cheapest one they had there at the time was nearly $200, and I couldn't see spending another $80 for 50watts... but hmmm... I may regret that.  I do think I'll wait a year or so and buy another 8800gtx for some sli action.  I could still take it back I suppose.I'm also wondering if I should get back the larger heat-sink too, but I feel sheepish having already returned the larger one for the smaller one; all because I wanted to have an operational swinging door.Anyway, I've updated my previous posts with the prices I paid for the components.It sure was an uphill battle getting to this point.  I had pulled out all my cards in my old system, uninstalled drivers for anything I could think of, etc, trying to get the GTS to run correctly... Then even getting the new system up and running was a chore... Couldn't get my ethernet ports to work at first, only to find out that I needed to install their drivers before any other drivers, despite the fact that the installation CD would install other chipset drivers at the same time automatically, causing XP to think my system had too few "resources" for the ethernet ports to work.  I re-installed XP; before I learned in an obscure forum posting that one must configure the driver installation CD to only install the ethernet drivers alone and first, before all others.In any case, I'm really happy with my current setup.  I was still struggling with my TrippleHead2Go on my old computer (even with the 8800GTS card), getting weird out of frequency range messages even at low resolution and 60Hz; but on my new system, the converter is working like a charm.  Even my dad was so impressed he flew a mooney around Hawaii for over an hour, where as normally he thinks PC games/sims are a waste of time.  With Track IR this is going to be an awesome sim system.TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4

[TX-Rahman]

Yeah...I think I lucked out with the prices Steve.  The power supply for example was on sale.  Dumb luck. Eventually I would like to get another 8800gtx and a triple head to go.  I just can't fathom buying three new monitors and the box right now.  I bet it looks sweet though!  I have a TIR4Pro that I haven't hooked back up yet....Regards,TX-Rahman"BLACK 4"

[TX-EcoDragon]

Man, three monitors and a TrackIR sounds pretty sweet. I guess three 19inch LCDs is about the same price as one 24 inch. . .hmmmmmS!TX-EcoDragonBlack 1TX-Squadron XO

[TX-ScubaSteve]

Eco, I was wondering how you got your processor up to 3.4Ghz?  Set the clock multiplier to 14x?  I visited www.overclock.net several times, and the only real advice I found about overclocking Intel CPUs, was the following quote:"Once you start overclocking, there will be three general limiting factors: vcore, RAM and heat. For Northwood chips keep your load temps under 55C and vcore no greater than 1.7v (whichever comes first, let that be your limiting factor). For Prescott chips, 65C load temps and 1.525v should be your upper limits."Since we have the same CPUs, I was wondering which one's we have? Northwood or Prescott.In any case, if you wouldn't mind offering your suggestions as to how to over-clock this cpu, and gpu I'd appreciate it.I found that when in Cmos, I can't set the multiplier any higher than 9x, but on nTune's Dynamic Bios Access, my max multiplier setting is 28x; so I imagine if I can set this to 14x, I could get around 3.4Ghz?  I'm just nervous about doing so at this time, as I still feel very confused about this whole thing.So far, I've tried using nTune's automatic Tuning.  Rah, have you tried this yet? I can't seem to get it to work too well.I tried a custom 6 hour auto tuning session... which didn't seem to do much better than a 2 hour auto tune; and eventually my system wouldn't even boot up anymore after running it for awhile.  I basically ended up uninstalling and reinstalling ntune, because I couldn't seem to get the profiles and defaults to load back back.For one thing, all ntune seems to adjust through it's "automatic tuning" is the PCI-E bus and the FSB; even though GPU is one of the things I have selected to "autotune".Right now, my system seems fairly stable with the FSB (and memory): 1148.361Mhz (vs. 1066.947Mhz)... which gives a CPU (9x) speed of 2583.813Mhz (not even close to 3.4ghz!)The PCI-E settled at 3950Mhz (vs. stock setting of 2500Mhz)My 3DMark05 score went from 14818 to 15417 with the above frequencies.I still haven't been able to overclock my GPU, despite the fact that the autotune with Ntune is supposed to do that, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't even try!  When I go to the GPU page, and click on the button "optimize" it instantly crashes my system.I can manually raise the core bus speed from default (576mhz) to 771Mhz, testing as I go... but once I hit the "apply" button, my system crashes.  Testing always fails above 779.Testing usually fails when I try bumping the GPU's memory speed up one notch to 906Mhz, vs. stock of 900Mhz.So, right now, I'm still running my GPU at stock frequencies, even though my PCI-E bus is screaming.Anyway, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions you two might have.Thanks.S!TX-ScubaSteveWhite 4