Proper gun recoil modelling

[TX-Thunderbolt]

I've been doing a good bit of reading lately (always do right after Christmas as my family finally listens and gets me some of the selected reading material on my "list") and in reading 2 of Eric Hammel's books Aces Against Germany and Aces Against Japan, I've realized that recoil from firing all your guns at once was a real concern for many (especially in low-speed combat on the deck) because the recoil was so pronounced that it could actually contribute to a severe stall.

One pilot of a P-51 stated that firing all 6 guns was the equivalent of reducing horsepower by 400!

This brings me to a somewhat rhetorical question with 2 parts;

A. To what extent is this phenomenon modelled in IL2?

and

B. How well do you think it will be modelled in newer-gen sims like SoW and RoF?

[TX-Gunslinger]

Hi TB,

Thanks for the references, I'll have to put those two on my list.  I never really stopped to think about this, but the recoil effect makes perfect sense.  Particularly with 6 to 8 .50's.  Perhaps this was part of the reason that the Jug could carry 8 and the Mustang started it's life with only 4.

Have you asked the "Oleg" folks over at 1C yet?

Good to see you,

S~

Gunny

[TX-EcoDragon]

Well, there is no doubt that it is modeled to a degree. It's not as evident in the P-40/P47/P-51 since they fire so many, smaller rounds, but things like the P-39, Yak9T/K, Bf109 w/Mk108, 190, Ki84C all have pronounced recoil induced deceleration when on the ground, or when at minimal airspeed. Just fire your guns before engine start to see it! In the olden days of original IL-2 when I would sometimes fly with cockpit off I remember seening the digital airspeed value decrease in the P-39 by about 8 km/h when I was in a dogfight at low alt and airspeed. Since then I've often joked about not firing weapons on those big guns when just shy of stalling! Of course the P-40/P-47/P-51 do show some decreased gun platform stability when firing too.

How Accurate? Well - probably no better or worse than the rest of the sim! This is surely an area were few can comment from actual experience in these particular aircraft, and reading wartime tales. . .well. . .how accurate can anything ever be in that case, we still see disagreements about events - something so very tangible, something difficult to quantify in the first place would be even harder. We would need to use physics to approximate the effects, and in reality, that's probably the most accurate way in the first place. . .and it appears that some sort of thinking was done on this front in IL-2.

[TX-Gunslinger]

You know Eco, now that you mention it - Corsair/Tempest/Hellcat and to an extent the FW have definite recoil effects to lesser and greater extents - particularly observable when slow.

I need to fly Il-2 again soon, it's been way too long.  I don't think I've ever gone as long as I have lately without flying Il-2.

S~

Gunny

[TX-Kingsnake]

Recoil does push you backwards on the runway.

[TX-CUDA]

Recoil does push you backwards on the runway.

Right you are Herr Kingsnake! I used to use that method when the wind conditions were sick in some of the old maps we used to fly!