Realistic cockpit interface in SOW in jeopardy.

[GOZR]

Gunny please answer my question....read the posts please.....          ..OMG did i say this things out loud....YYyyyeaaaaaas!!! 

[TX-EcoDragon]

Still, no evidence that he did anything he did not believe in himself. 

I've seen plenty, in many of his emails to the beta folks he would state that he thought things were better in the previous version but since the community had issues with something that we, or those of us that agreed with them,  should to look at it in the beta, which was a compromise between what Oleg wanted it to be, and what he thought the community wanted. . .and this was despite his cited feelings that no change should be made.

Some of my beta report responses to him were things like "I agree that no change should be made."

[TX-Kingsnake]

This is why I do not go to the forums.
Damn it now I got my panties in a bunch. 

[TX-Gunslinger]

Yeah me too, mine are in a bunch and I'm not sure why

Which part didn't I answer Gozr? 

1) I want clickable cockpits and think they are as important as you do...
2) Looks like I might disagree (not totally sure) with you and Eco on how much Oleg pays attention to forum posts by the average vitual pilot.  I can readily admit, however that Eco and you have had contact with Oleg over the years, and I haven't so I may be too negative.
3) TUSA has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
4) I bought my new system because:
     a) Old one was too slow
     b) Black shark would be more fun at higher frame rates and I'd like to add a 2nd monitor perhaps
     c) Great price-performance time
     d) assumption that Rise of Flight and Storm of War would have at least the same software footprint as Black Shark

I think you are trying to convince me of something, but I'm not sure quite what it is.  If I could figure it out, maybe we could come to consensus....

I feel a little foolish discussing things when I'm not sure what we are disagreeing about.

S~

Gunny 

[GOZR]

Choices Gunny but i know you would agree

[GOZR]

Think why it would be more fun to have better frame rate or seeing more details in the sim ? etc.. with new hardware ... well this is the answer of why we need more complexity into a sim Gunny. it's the same.. good to have the choices

[TX-Gunslinger]

Think why it would be more fun to have better frame rate or seeing more detailsin the sim etc.. with new hardware ... well this is the answer of why we need more complexity into a sim Gunny. it's the same..

I agree with you 1000 %.  Somewhere along the thread, it seems to me that you got the idea I did not agree with these improvements. 

I will be very, very happy if SOW and ROF have clickable cockpits, for example.  If they are not there upon installing the software package, I'm not going to throw the software away, however.  I'll just sigh and say, "too bad".

I've already posted my opinions over at 1C.  In one thread I cannot find anymore and today:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=67117&posted=1#post67117

BTW - here's my post from a long time ago - early in the 1C forums history.  I still believe this.....
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?s=af575083f31ddc6b829d291f7581a677&t=2923

If any of you have not figured it out yet, the 1C forums is NOT the place for anything about SOW (note that it's an Il2 forum) other than screenshots and an occasional note from Oleg (which is the ONLY reason to go over there - and that information is in a sticky).

Unless your Eco, that is.  It is entirely possible that if you were on the beta team in the past, Oleg could have those messages picked out and forwarded to him.  Gozr, you've exchanged email with Oleg in the past - therefore maybe he listens to you too, I don't know.

Look, if some folks would actually read their posts after posting, they might find that they say the same thing over, and over, and over again.  I see many posters over at 1C forums that way.  Why would Oleg need to read the forum to see what they have to say? 

S~

Gunny

[GOZR]

Yes agree Gunny..

[TX-EcoDragon]

Those are valid points Gunny, and the very ones I thought years ago when Oleg still did actually respond to people in forums. . .it's plain to see why he would not do that anymore, with the sheer number of throw away posts. The point that you and I don't seem to have agreed on is my understanding that Oleg does have his feelers out there monitoring community consensus (as much as there is such a thing) and that community is by and large that which posts in the forums. I'm not saying Oleg is reading that thread or these forums anymore - I hope he doesn't because it would no doubt be really frustrating. Despite that, he's always paid some attention to the majority voice, and some of the runner-ups, and unless he's fully re-invented himself as someone different, I'm confident that if there was a stronger contingent of the forum community that valued things like a cockpit interface, that one would appear down the road. That doesn’t mean I’m writing a post hoping Oleg reads it, I’d send an email if my goal was to talk to him about my opinion.

[GOZR]

OK time to fly a bit you choose, for fun we can go and fly il2 a bit 409 or Lockon SU25 since you guys like good FM or some ride on BS or even a little travel in FSX with a P47 ala "Black Shark" or a Spit or even this great WW1 gennadich plane just to get ready!!!!.... Condor? damit i'm a patch behind!!!! grrrrr

or if you don't lets built a MOD...

[TX-Gunslinger]

Go try 4.09bm1 mod Sedan 1940 map on OC3 and tell me what you don't like about it

1 map on the rotation I have to work on, but I've run out of time.....  it's the Bir Hachiem map...

I've been editing these maps all weekend.  I think the two that are best are this Sedan 1940 and the new "Slot" map mission I finished tweaking yesterday.


S~

Gunny

[GOZR]

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=287

[TX-EcoDragon]

Doesn't sound good:

When working on a [Combat Simulator] how do you solve the issue for [Sim vs game] for this type of product: do not go to the arcade and simplified to avoid caring for the creation of a simulator for pilots, where each button and the toggle switch was responsible for clicks mouse?

Just: Considering the vast experience of communication with users all over the world. But the main principle is: Everyone wants to fly in an airplane, modeled the most approximate to the actual prototype, but all the buttons and levers, all the more so by the mouse - that's not all you need. In our experience of the past, even real pilots are not so interesting. And if you are interested, then at once - to try. Then it will be turned off in options, as one of my friends airman, «for the benefit of enjoying the flight, not masochism preparing to fly».

from: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fspread-wings.ru%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D154%26Itemid%3D1&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


Bummer - they said the same thing about wind and wind socks. . .I really love Oleg's game, but why they insist on building it for the lowest common denominator is beyond me. . . maybe so there can be a follow up sim that will finally be complete??? 

[TX-Gunslinger]

I'm going to re-read that another 15 times (already tried at least 6), before I'll be sure deep inside my brain what he's saying.
So far it does seem like he's saying "real pilots don't want this, and folks will just turn it off anyway".
"All the more so by the mouse".

Of course, the mod folks will have to have something to do once SOW comes out - so maybe they'll hack it early 

Please tell me more about the wind and wind socks part - I thought we were getting dynamic, range dependent air mass?

Thanks

Gunny

[TX-EcoDragon]

About the wind and wind socks, that was an old discussion, but it went the same way. . .in the forums all the air quake guys were shouting about that nobody cared about having wind, and therefore they didn’t care about wind socks, or weather systems in general. . . they wanted the Tempest or the Spitfire or whatever. The sad thing is that our OC3 used to have different weather and time of day settings and many players would just leave. . .none of these guys have a clue how the other half lives. . .those that do appreciate a true flight sim, who crank the weather up to minimums for the challenge of it. Of course that was also why TX-OC3 made an indellible mark on some members of the community. . .but most of them lost their niche as the air quake crowd slowly dominated online play, and the types of missions and settings that could be found on HL. Those guys still send messages to us here, or post sometimes in the forums about the years ago when they could find good servers on HL, but haven't bothered to fly IL-2 for years. I guess I'm just the sort of person that cares about stuff like that.

As for the cockpit interface yes, he thinks nobody cares about it, and those that do would just try it once. He might be right about much of the vocal IL-2 community, but he's 100% wrong about the flight sim community at large. . .anyone can see that if they look at the top selling product addons for MSFS, and the nature of what is done in those sims. Alternatively, take a look at Black Shark that has spawned a new game interface system for touchscreen type control on any monitor, look at all the X-Plane and FS2004/FSX people that purchased BlackShark after seeing the clips and videos that folks like me were putting out there on other websites (and then when I state my feelings on it in the IL-2 forums some try to suggest that I hate Oleg's sim because I want it to be easier to market to the rest of the sim world, and of course I also want the benefits for myself!!!)

Obviously we aren't going to be shooting CATIII ILS approaches in BOB, but those same pilots are the ones that own every WOP aircraft at 40 bucks each. . . MANY would come to BOB if it could be lauded as a legitimate flight sim and not just a combat game, I don't care how many times someone like El or whoever that tagtaken guy is say different, the proof is in the proverbial pudding. . .IL-s is a serious fringe title compared to the rest of the genre, and these little things, like realistic atmospherics, systems management, and aircraft interface are critical aspects of that other community. . .I'll make due either way, but I think I'll be done advocating the sim line to the rest of the flight sim and pilot community if it seems like I'm the only one that cares to support it in that other realm.

[Rant off/]